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December 9, 2012
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A friend of a friend, who is studying art, needed to interview a professional artist for a class. I technically qualify, so I was happy to help.

One question was not at all about art, but rather about America. The student in question is Finnish, and asked me this:

When asked about job opportunities in America, an american university professor who teaches graphic design in the UK mentioned the "american dream". He said that it is a common belief, that everyone is the architect of his own fortune and if you do not succeed you're just lazy. However, according to him, in reality most of your study opportunities and career success are tied on how much money you have. What are your thoughts on this?

This is what I wrote:

Wow, that's a big question. How long do you have? :)

I live in a liberal part of the U.S. Here in the state of Washington, we just voted to legalize gay marriage and marijuana. Culturally this is a VERY different place than, say, Texas or Alabama.

I would say the notion you're describing is a core belief of American conservatism. A conservative relative of mine has repeatedly put it to me in pretty much exactly that way: "in America, if you work hard, you get ahead." It's not true at all, of course. We have terrible income inequality and not a lot of class mobility. I grew up comfortably middle-class and have had the luxury of doing what I want to do with my life as a result. Had I been born into poverty, I would, statistically speaking, most likely still be poor, and I would never have had the opportunity to pursue a dream the way I have. To me, that's scandalous. If it were up to me America would have a much better safety net, and thereby enable people to take risks and chase dreams without worrying that they might starve to death.

American conservatives like to claim they speak for America as a whole, but they're wrong, as we saw in the last election, in which conservative politicians and ideas got clobbered. Mitt Romney basically ran his presidential campaign on a version of the "everyone is the architect of his own fortune" line, and he lost badly to the first president ever to successfully pass some form of near-universal health care. I take that as an encouraging sign about where the country might be headed.

But it's always a fight against the rich assholes who want to tear up the social contract, and the gullible rubes who can't see through their smokescreen talk about "freedom."

(It's worth noting that American racial politics are mixed up in all this. "Lazy" is often code for "black." White southerners were all for an expansive social safety net until black people got legally guaranteed equal rights in the 60s, at which point they became terrified that "those people" were a bunch of lazy moochers who would take advantage of the system. Modern conservatives mostly deny that this is still what's going on, but look how deranged they are by the fact that the rest of us twice elected a black president.)
  • Watching: 30 Rock
  • Drinking: Cheap red wine
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:iconeagle1division:
*Eagle1Division Apr 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hmm. I doubt it has as much to do with wealth as people think. When someone with an X degree graduates from Y college, prospective employers don't go; "What were your parents' annual income?" and decide how much they should be paid, and if they should be hired, from that.

No, what matters when getting a job is knowledge, college, and portfolio (The last even goes for non-art jobs, like engineering. I'm using "portfolio" more generally than it's common usage, to mean "past experience, and what you have to show for it". A guy who worked with Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works (the best aircraft engineers in the world) has a much better chance of getting hired than an ex-car mechanic, for example.).

"College" and "Portfolio" are obvious and explained, but let me explain what I mean by "knowledge"; the person has to know the opening exists. Connections help, but they don't land a job alone, so I'm grouping them with "knowledge".

Statistics might show poor stay poor and rich stay rich, but how much of that is due to the economic system? I'd say it's got more to do with psychology (self-doubt, determination, fear, confidence) and culture (are they being ridiculed or rewarded for being smart? Do people shortcut themselves so they don't appear "nerdy"? Are they taught to value education and career, or not?).

Furthermore, statistics may show x, but they only reveal a correlation. It takes much more than statistics to reveal an actual cause/effect relationship. Plus, there's always the fun fact that statistics can be toyed with. For example; statistics say you should avoid being airlifted to a hospital in a medical emergency, or possibly even avoid the hospital entirely. You're most likely to die if you're airlifted, and hospitals are places where people die far more often than anywhere else, after all.

Furthermore, system-leeches do exist: [link]
Systems are in place to allow people who can't afford it to go to college. They work. They work so well they're abused.
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:icontyvulpintaur:
It's also based on where you live. In the Northeast (from Washington (where I used to live) to say, Boston), you have a lot of job opportunities that pay mid-to-high range, whereas in the South (where I now live), jobs are few and few inbetween, and most pay little. And living the American Dream is part being in the right place at the right time (luck), and part hard work. I know a lot of people that work hard but don't get rewarded (me), and people that are born into wealth without working for it.
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:iconowlor:
~Owlor Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
woah, that was sharp-tounged, and, I think, completely accurate. Unfortunently, conservative rethoric is seductive, cus it plays to peoples pride and ego. It's so much more pleasant to believe we live in a world where you can accomplish anything if you try hard enough, unfortunently, only a few of us live in that world, and those who do do it at the expense of the vast majority who don't.

It's frankly pretty disheartening to see how easily people are suckered in by it, tough I comfort myself with the fact that as long as this inequality persist, there will be more people screwed over than does the screwing, and you can't pull the whool over everyones eyes all the time. Eventually it will come back and bite them in the ass. Hard. Or so I'd like to imagine anyway....
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:icontim-kangaroo:
I tend to take the Michael Moore view: Capitalism is evil and you can't reform evil.
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:iconkingploobis:
Capitalism in and of itself is not a bad idea, but it can only "work" when a healthy system of circulation is established via government mandate.
The problem we're facing in modern times is that of stagnation, too much in the hands of too few.
That's when it ceases to be capitalism and mutates into a sort of neo-feudalism.

.
.
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But good luck fitting that onto a bumper sticker.
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:iconryuspike:
~RyuSpike Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You want to know what the worst analogy to ever come out of a person's mouth based on this subject? Report cards. Now imagine being told this analogy several times by several people from several different social classes. This is apparently a legit mindset some people have. Allow me to tell you how wrong it is...

I remember this one conversation I had with a friend who was very conservative at the time. It all started when I told him how the rich should be paying more taxes instead of less because they actually have the money to handle such finances. He then disagreed with me saying that the reason why the rich pay less is because the deserve it for working towards their fortune. I was dumbfounded by what he said. He then went on to explain to me why this is through this analogy.

People who work hard in school get good grades. Those who don't get the worst grades. Put simply, the wealthy get A's and the poor get F's. If we were to drop the grades of all the students who had been given A's to a C so that all the students who are failing would get the same grade, would it have been fair for the students who actually earned those grades to lose them just so that a lazier student can pass? I was even more dumbfounded than before. And a little irate.

I was a good student. I gotten plenty of A's and worked extremely hard at them despite of how hellish my high school schedule was. I was also very poor. Still am and might always will be. Heck, I was actually worse off because I spent a good part of my childhood being technically homeless. The kicker? Both of my parents were military. So yeah. What this friend of mine said? Completely. Utterly. Unapologetically. Offended me. Basically, I don't DESERVE to be given any rewards because I am not working hard enough for it! I don't DESERVE to have a better living because I didn't metaphorically bribed the school system to give me the A's I want! And I sure as hell don't DESERVE to be seen as an intelligent or upright member of society because I wasn't born under far more favorable circumstances!

It goes without saying that I chewed his sorry hide good that day. My language being FAR more graphic than what I'm implying now. He never talked to me about politics ever again since that day.
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:iconalockwood2:
~alockwood2 Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
You should hear my one friend talk about politics- about the only way to (respectfully) get him to shut up is to ask him to tell you about his time over in Germany while he was in the service- when he talks about his time in the service, he talks about the fine wine they have, along with Cognac- something he really likes, but can't often afford. :D
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:icondatapacrat:
~DataPacRat Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I've recently started experimenting with avoiding the term 'capitalism', and instead using either 'competitionism' or 'corporatism', depending on whether the economic system being discussed either promotes new entrants into the market or protects entrenched interests against such upset. While the specific words could use improvement, at least trying to make the attempt to differentiate between the two forms of so-called "free-market capitalism" seems to make it easier to figure out which side of a debate is more likely to be on the side of promoting overall economic gains.

Or, put another way - my thinking on pretty much anything related to such matters has been improved by reading the graphic-novel, "Economix" - which I recommend to anyone reading this journal comment.
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:iconltnthallsworth:
It really boggles me how many artists ive met who are so solidly entrenched in their beliefs in matters like this. Its a very different kind of debate when you talk with lawyers or self employed welders, there it gets into actual tax code debate or stuff like fuel logistics for servicing a fleet of trucks and the debate can go all over the place from union law to which universities have which training programs, its not even very often the words capitalism are even uttered in a talk like that.

Im sorry, I dont mean to be an ass but I have heard this journal pretty much word for word before a hundred times from other artists. :(
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:iconpedantia:
*Pedantia Dec 9, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
If you'd bother to learn some basic English grammar, so as not to make me decipher your point, I'd be so much more likely to respond.

...well, honestly, no, not that much more likely.
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